this is what im talking about


I found this video today and I have to say that I like what I see. Florian Lahner, the German CCSD director is teaching techniques that cover all ranges and aspects of combat.

Take a look at the CQB pistol techniques shown in this video, they are prime examples of what has to be learned to avoid the Excalibur Syndrome as I have described it in previous posts.

 

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12 thoughts on “this is what im talking about”

  1. I agree with the integrated/coordinated training approach. No one ‘system’ (empty hand, firearm, tactic…) is strong enough to do it all, but the mastery of coordinating different tactics to get the job done is the highest aspirations and the most fundamental skill that a ‘warrior’ must have.

    I don’t agree with some of the pistol flying around stuff that was in the demos. You are ALWAYS responsible for your muzzle awareness and whipping a hand w/a pistol in it in siniwali patterns isn’t something I can buy into.

    Besides which, it is counter-intuitive to the training that most LEO/Operational folks get:

    It requires constant maintenance.
    It’s pretty intricate, and therefore takes along time to master
    It is based on more “mano y mano” tactics that don’t (based on the demo footage) take into account what’s beyond or around the target/threat.

    It would make for some really interesting action film choreography for sure.

  2. A CCL instructor I knew years ago emphasized practicing shooting silhouettes at very close range, saying that was where most defensive shootings occurred. And I’ve practiced martial ars, but I haven’t done any dynamic drills like that, so that may be my next step.

    I was surprised to see the gangsta sideways one-handed grip they were using. Is that an artifact of their base martial art, or more useful for marksmanship than I have thought, or simply an indulgence?

    1. I think it may be due to many of the close range, bent arm positions they are training for and firing from. Its also similar to a punching motion for this type of CQB technique.

  3. Although if I were forced to criticize..I would have to be a bit skeptical about using an auto pistol as an impact device like Paul is. If it gets knocked out of battery while performing a block/check/counter its not gonna go “bang” when you want it. I do like the close retention techniques shown here though.

    But if you are in that type of situation, its close to an “all bets are off” event anyway.

    And while Im a FMA guy myself and I understand the limitations and differences between training/video taping demos vs. “reality”…the “punch then leave the arm out there and cover your head while the other guy goes to town on you” method that is pretty common in FMA training takes the element of resistance out of the equation.

    Not that that is to disparage the effectiveness of what I see here in the least. I just like to look for what can be improved in everything I see so that I dont become too used to the flavor of any one brand of kool-aide. 🙂

  4. being able to transition from an armed defence(with weapon) to any form of hand combat requires tons of training to be effective. combining the two requires skilles not taught in most stand alone weapons or defence training and any effective use of firearms requires hours and hours and hours of instruction and thousands of rounds fired

  5. Hi folks,
    hope you are having a great holiday time.
    I just stumbled in here by luck and thought I leave a word or two here.
    Thank you for all your critics and comments. I really do appreciate as I think I always have a lot to learn.
    Please take into account that this is a show and tell thing here….
    So reality might look different, though not completely different.

    I agree that some stuff requires lots of training. Some does not. In fact I have been able to teach the basic concepts and the usage to LEO and Military guys in a couple of days. The idea which Bram Frank came up with the basic concept of a Modular Training Methodology is that once basic and simple concepts are mastered (take not long) it can be utilised with all your tools.

    As for the responsibility of what you shoot. I think this is totally true, but I very much insist that there is a difference between what you cover with a muzzle and what you shoot at. I am not for waving guns around, but truth is that in real combat in a shtf-situation like this (being such close and getting attacked with blade or gun) you may not be able to choose what you cover with your muzzle. As long as you NOT shoot everything. This is an old debate. We need to accept that combat and weapons is a dangerous matter and there will be a risk…always. So if I do Sinawali like movements, first in real they would be much tighter. That would leave less area covered. Second I need to be able to shoot when I want to, not when it happens.

    Handposition:
    No full or half homie here…
    Just try: If you punch out your arm as hard and far as you could, the body naturally turns your arm to lock. Normally it would go back then. For demonstration purposes we left it out for a while.

    That also leads to demo vs. reality. We do force-on force with this. It does not look so nice, but does work pretty well.

    I agree on the out of battery problem.
    We tested it, actually and found it much less of a problem then thought. Depending on what type of firearm is used.
    On the other hand: If the attacker is such close, your choice to seek distance is quite small or non-existent, so you work with what you have. And you are so close that if the gun does not go bang, you stick it down his throat anyway….
    Also one handed malfunction clearing comes in handy, like stick it in his nose, when it goes click, use his face to cycle the slide using the rear sights and then go bang… 🙂
    Ok, I get carried away 🙂

    No, seriously. Thank you all of you for giving e feedback and things to think about. I hope I could shed some light on things. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

    Stay safe

    Florian

  6. Mr. Lahner,

    Thanks for coming by, I really like what you are doing with what I call “full spectrum” combatives here. Your acceptance and replies to criticism says a lot about you too. Ive always thought that FMA/CSSD stuff was ideal for this type of thing.

    Have you guys had any problems with “limp wristing” or stoppages with the “hand sideways” position?

    Is there some Center Axis Relock technique in the mix there?

    Best regards and continued success in 2009.

    Tom

  7. Sorry for taking so long to reply.
    I do not know you so it might be disrespectfull, but that is not my intention. If I am the one to offer you, then please would you accept calling me Florian? The “Mr. thing” is waaay out of place for me. 🙂

    I am honored that you have such a positive view on what we do.
    I do realize that it is always a matter of perspective (as my teacher would say)…

    Well, I personally 99% of the time shoot Glock in 9mm…never had any problems. We also tested in punching the weapon out, or barely holding them….everything was fine.
    Lots of the people attending seminar as LEOs and Military do use Sig, HK or even old Walther…..
    We did not experience malefunction.
    Of course there is a need to have a plan B, when being such close. You never know where the gun gets caught up…

    We even tested how far I can push into something before the slide goes out of battery…

    No, I do not use CAR in the sense that I never had any formal training in that.
    We do use a close to the body position (see 2:34 when teaching to Military) that borrows heavily from a #2 position in the drawstroke I am aware of Craig Douglas is using it, others to a less “dogmatic”degree, too).
    Also when extending further out I use a more fencing like/pointing concept and coming from a blade system, I also r rely on body awareness form using the blade and nearly touching or pushing in.
    Some argue that this is dangerous with a gun. I want to stay away from it, but in those situations I am afraid it is not me who can dictate distance anymore, and the other guy will run over me anyway…

    Hope that helps, and please excuse my bad language skills….

    A happy new year to you

    Florian

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