well…i think they should give the deer guns…


I once addressed the ethics of hunting in a forum discussion. The topic of Hunting can sometimes devolve into accusations of “cruelty”, the necessity of it, the evilness of calling it/considering it “sport”, etc. and some of that came to light here. This is how I addressed MY experience with hunting and how I see it’s place in my life.

I hunt Whitetail Deer every year. Have done some small game (rabbit, duck, pheasant, grouse, etc.) and have taken boar w/rifle.

In terms of “right and wrong”. I am a meat eater. I eat what I kill…always. I think that if you are a meat eater you have no grounds to criticize my “cruelty”. My food can and often does get away to live another season. Your meat (and mine too because I eat “store meat”) is born, raised and taken to slaughter. It NEVER had a chance.

I think that hunting has given me many gifts. I respect what it means to be a carnivore. I have a respect for the wilderness. My licensing fees do more to conserve wildlife and land for wildlife than almost all private foundations in this state combined. And to be “sadistic” in some people’s worldview..I know how various caliber weapons “work” on animals of large size and get to have a yearly reminder of what it means to kill. I take no pleasure in the kill but I know that I have the capability. And for those who think that martial arts is about “warriorship”. Hunting has been the pastime of “Warriors” (and probably the prehistoric forerunner to the fighting man) for eons.

 The photo below is of a boar I took in the late summer of 2010:

I was invited to a private hunt at a game preserve, something I don’t normally do, nor something I can really afford to be honest; but as it was a “gift”, I went. I like ham, we buy quite a bit of it from the local markets. While many of the “anti-hunters” may like to ignore this fact, the plain truth is that this animal suffered no more (and hopefully less) than the animal that we buy in those sterile foam trays from the supermarket. It was fed and allowed to roam free till I took it as expediently and with as little “malice” as any other predator in the wild would when it hunts for its sustenance. It wasn’t cooped up in a pen till it was time for that terrifying ride in a truck and then the herding down the slaughterhouse chute. Mind you, I don’t really have an issue with the necessity of that scenario either, it’s the reality of feeding the people of this world.

The additional benefits I gained from this hunt and from hunting in general was a field testing of my weapon and my marksmanship. Unlike simply shopping for ham, I got food PLUS  real-world training and a testing of the effectiveness of my “tools” and ammunition selection. So while the vegans out there have my respect as far as putting their “morals where their mouths are”, the meat eating “antis” need to explain to me where my choice of acquiring some food is so wrong.

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13 thoughts on “well…i think they should give the deer guns…”

  1. I never got hunting as cruelty. Predators are part of nature, and few kill as quickly and cleanly as a skilled human.

    I also never got hunting as sport. Perhaps because I grew up on a farm, and around subsistence hunters, I see killing animals for food as a chore. I am able to do it when the need arises, but I’m about as likely to schedule a hunting vacation as a vacation doing the dishes or scrubbing floors.

    That said, I’m glad I know a few avid hunters — I can often score some delicious treats by sharing my cooking and/or jerky-making skills. 😉

  2. Dear tgace,
    You’ve said nothing here I disagree with until the end. Vegans, however ‘natural’ are rarely getting full nutrition (zinc, B-12) without some fancy non-natural acquisition. I am sure some food has these two w/o killing an animal, but the effort to acquire it is unnatural.

    So they are rarely eating without some element of exoticism supported by grocery chain distribution of the elaborate kind, ‘buy local, buy seasonal’ notwithstanding.

    Third, they can ignore their canine teeth if they want. But I don’t think it’s cruelty free. There’s a cruelty in stepping back, too, and refusing to acknowledge the prey/predator interactions out there. It means one can be morally certain because one refuses to examine a huge set of daily life. And having that unexamined means numbers of other people get trammeled by its unconscious applications.

    To be fair, though, many a person does this over store-bought pork chops too. Because someone else has done that dirty work too.

    I think veganism is a sign of prosperity and luxury, a post-Fordist result using many of the same Fordist techniques. Lucky them. They can afford to fit into the fashion of the day, and take everyone else to task about not being ‘in’.

    Eat more rice, LOL,
    Ann T.

    1. Yeah..I was really only trying to say that at least vegans “walk the walk” about not eating meat…for right or wrong. The meat eaters and leather wearers who cry about hunting are the ones I grit my teeth over.

    2. Nice point Ann. I agree with you totally about the ‘vegan’ fashion/luxury point – as well as the ‘cool’ counter culture mentality that seems to come from/with it.

      I have a few vegetarian relatives (tied to their religious beliefs) who I love dearly BUT chuckle behind my hand about because all of the ‘I feel so much better because…’ talk about a vegetarian diet – along with the ‘more natural’ argument – flies out the window IMO when nearly all of their ‘healthy vegetarian’ meals are coming from “TV Dinner” type meal packaging due to their very busy lifestyles.

      Seems to me they are getting just as ‘polluted’ as anyone who eats a meat based processed food diet.

  3. Mark Twain has a wonderful passage in his auto-biography about this. The just being that we do not judge the spider for killing, nor the jaguar. We do not discredit the weasel for his egg-stealing actions. But all characteristics in men, while natural to his being, we incorrectly condemn.

      1. It is more of a paraphrase haha, he writes several pages on the concept (its the only redundant part of the book so far) but I thought was pretty applicable here.

  4. I had a conversation with a conservationist (say that ten times, fast) at Reistein Nature Perserve who made a great point about ‘preservation’ vs. ‘conservation.’

    “Preservationist” views on ‘nature’ are based on the idea that no matter who much impact ppl have on ecology we should just stop, leave it alone and it will ‘right’ itself. This IMO is a bit naive. We would never use that kind of ‘natural medicine’ approach to a loved one, why is it logical to do for ‘nature.’

    “Conservationist” mentality, in comparison is about responsible, reflective, and ethical imactfulness on ecology/nature – including
    ‘managing’ (as in stewardship) how we modify and use our environment.

    Growing up trapping, hunting, fishing, camping and all that, I find myself leaning toward the ‘conservationist’ mentality because it doesn’t ignore or ‘judge’ the human factor of nature. It recognizes that we ARE part of the environment and have to reap what we sew/choose to do with it.

    Hunting, IMO, is a fine tradition for a ‘conservationist’ minded person and teaches so many great ‘character’ traits if done well.

  5. Hunting is a very important skill set that every person could benefit from. In my system of IRT hunting is integral and practitioner’s need to know the skill. You are absolutely right in that warrior cultures have always emphasized hunting for their warriors and warriors to be. It is a skill set that in many ways translates to battle very well!

    Brian R. VanCise

    1. Thanks Brian. IMO hunting is as close to “combat” with a live weapon against a live target as you are going to get. Not that THAT should drive you to hunt, but it’s an additional benefit for the “martial artist/combat professional/hunter”.

  6. I have always felt that if one were to hunt ‘for sport’, then one should use nothing more than a camo suit and an equivalent melée weapon to whatever it is that they’re hunting.

    Just my 2 cents.

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